The only thing missing in this story is just how much loan money the City of Cleveland Heights was on the hook for when Dottie's, Steve Presser's restaurant, went down.

The way all the former operators/owners talk, you'd think the joint was haunted.

If someone had the funding to move the diners to the vacant lot at Lee and Meadowbrook and serve palatable food, I feel they would do very well.
The last figure that I heard was $650,000 from the city/taxpayers.

One idea recently floated around among our friends is a different type of restaurant, perhaps something like Korean or a pho restaurant. The all-American diner/bistro thing hasn't panned out in the past, but no one has tried an ethnic restaurant.

K, I posted this before, but it didn't post, so I apologize if it shows up twice.
I think you need to try something new here - something like a coffee shop, doughnut shop, or cupcake place.. something were people are stopping in, grabbing their stuff and heading out to work, or back home. The space is just off the beaten path enough, that you don't just pass by, you have to seek it out. Try something new here. Just my 2 cents.

I think the article mentions the most important aspect: Location.

I used to live around there, on E. Berkshire and on Beechwood Ave. Somehow, they need to give that area an 'identity', and make it another CH destination.

Cain Park is right there. It's awful darn close to Cedar-Lee. The Bottlehouse opened up nearby.

I may be overly optimistic, but I think with a little bit of $ and effort, over time people could be encouraged to frequent that area to a greater extent.

For example, a special where your Cain Park ticket gets you a discount on a meal before the show, or maybe a combined show/dinner special. Or just encourage folks to park there for the shows.

I think there is potential for that business district.

Why not try a Starbuck's. The closest Starbucks is maybe at the Rockefeller Bldg. I would say Phonenix coffee because I like them better but they have one just up the street on Lee.

If one has to rely on Cain Park traffic, that is only seasonal.

And with the brewery in the area now, it might work. I never thought the Phoenix on Mayfield and Green would work but it seems to. It cannot depend on the foot traffic from Cain Park. That is why you need a big name like Starbucks. And it would be a unique Starbucks. I know the diners also have a party room below the dinners. Not sure of the wisdom in that and how that could be utilized.

Starbucks already tried Cedar ande Lee. Didn't last long.

Yeah but Phoenix is right in that block. Not sure why Starbucks didn't work up there except it was a pain to access. The front is always parked up and nobody is going to park in the rear and walk all the way to Cedar. I don't understand how the Starbucks does so well at Cedar and Warrensville but apparently it does.

Every single owner who has operated a restaurant at that site made the same wrong-headed decision: they tried to make the place something it wasn't. Solution: If it looks like a diner and is called a diner -- well, it's probably a diner. Operate it as such: Simple menu consisting of simple diner food. Keep the menu short. And at middling to cheap prices. It's doable, providing the owner doesn't over-think it and try to put lipstick on the pig.

It was a diner to begin with. It did not work. It is simply a bad location. That place has to cost a lot to operate. No one that I know of can afford to move it to a better location - Lee and Meadowbrook - so I am afraid that it will always fail. The last time that I ate at Favor, where the food was a bit above marginal, I was the only one in the place. That does not bring in business. I ate there a fair amount last summer, when the service was better and the food was better. It simply declined.

Richard...exactly. It was a diner and it didn't work. It is a bad, bad location. There is just not enough foot traffic. It would have to depend on car traffic. It is way to costly to move and who is to say it is going to do any better at Meadowbrook and Lee. I would like to see why/how the bank gave any money to Presser to start with. Maybe Presser can buy it back and put Big Fun in there...just being sarcastic. Again, I think the best would be a Starbucks. They have the deep pockets and would study whether it would be worth their money to do. Beyond that...I have no clue.

Great, very pragmatic conversation, fellas!

Now, if we could just get both of you to use the "Reply" button properly, in order to "nest" your responses...

I've always thought that what that place needs to be is a high school hangout spot - burgers and malts. Maybe someone could follow Keith Logan's (Sweetie Fry) lead and involve Heights High kids in the process of planning, building it out, staffing it, and driving business there.

It did a brisk business as a diner, but Presser had too much money dumped into it (the move, the hijacking of the cars by the movers, the renovation, and being duped by those who built the kitchen (way too large of a kitchen) and the party space underneath) to make it work, plus he hadn't run a restaurant before and I suspect his cost ratio was off on food and labot. If it was run as a southern diner (ie has a liquor license as opposed to NJ/NY/East PA diner ) it would work. I say get an experienced diner chef from NY/NJ, get a liquor license and an experienced restaurantuer and it would work very well (esp. if you highlight local foods - corned beef, perogies, etc.).

Oh, well. Too bad no one has run that place right.

Didn't know about Zagara's desire for the place. If so, it is better than sitting vacant. I think the future of the diners has more to do with how the new installed brewery will do. I guess if you can come up with something unique, you might stand a chance. Even then...look how many restaurants have come and gone up on the other end of Lee. There has been a lot of changes at CH City Hall as of late. Let's hope the people coming in have some fresh ideas and are open to change. Sometimes in CH, I feel as though we are in a rut. Not that change is always the answer. However, we are in a tough economic position at present and it is going to take some thinking outside the box/

Except for Favor Bistro and Gali Gali, I went to the other incarnations of the diner cars on many occasions. Every time, there were problems with the service...either not enough servers or very inexperienced/nervous servers. It is a mystery to me why some restaurant owners pour tons of cash into their businesses and then staff so poorly.

A long time ago I waitressed at the Green House at University Circle when it was run by the Minillo family. They trained us to high standards (even though it was a casual eatery), and made sure we were a well oiled machine when it came to serving customers, and that is why that restaurant lasted so long (I wish it was still there!).

In my opinion, none of the businesses in the diners ever had that "well oiled machine" feel, even after being open for months...if anything, service declined as time went on, which was frustrating.

I recall the place being an ice box in the winter, when you sat near an exterior wall.
Parking is not very adequate. Food eateries have come and gone in the Cedar-Lee area.

But the bottom line is food quality and service. A great example is Big Al's Diner on Larchmere. The service is attentive. The quantity and quality of the food I have eaten there is exceptional. If you have a good product, people will show up. Jayson's was on the corner of Washington & Lee. Later at the same spot was Lopez & Gonzales.

Tremont is out of the way, its patrons don't all live in the neighborhood. And it is doing well.